1, 'STRIVE IN US -- JAAHADUU FIINAA '

2. 'we surely GUIDE THEM TO OUR PATHS'


29:69. As for those who STRIVE IN US,
WE SURELY GUIDE THEM TO OUR PATHS,
and lo! Allah is with the good.
Pickthal's Quran Translation
=

note the above striving is directly connected with allah's 'guidance
to our paths.'

meaning: a muslim is commanded to strive in this life ONLY and LIVE.

if so, no suicide bomber who takes the innocent lives with his own can
ever hope for this DIVINE guidance. hence, his painful end is
inevitable.
=

'AND WHOSOEVER STRIVETH,
STRIVETH ONLY FOR HIMSELF'

29: 4. Or do those who do ILL-DEEDS IMAGINE that they can outstrip
Us?
EVIL IS THAT WHICH THEY DECIDE.

29: 5. Whoso looketh forward to the MEETING WITH ALLAH (let him know
that)
Allah's reckoning is surely nigh, and He is the Hearer, the Knower.


29: 6. AND WHOSOEVER STRIVETH,
STRIVETH ONLY FOR HIMSELF--HIS SOUL,
for lo! Allah is altogether
INDEPENDENT OF (HIS) CREATURES.


29: 7. And as for THOSE WHO BELIEVE and do good works,
We shall remit from them their evil deeds and shall
repay them the best that they did.
Pickthal's Quran Translation

29. 6:
C3428. ALL OUR STRIVING ENSURES TO OUR OWN SPIRITUAL BENEFIT.

When we speak of serving Allah, it is not that we confer any benefit
on Him. For He has no needs, and is independent of all His Creation.
In conforming to His Will, we are seeking our own good, as in yielding
to evil we are doing harm to ourselves.
Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 29:6] [http://www.al-islam.org/quran/]
Jihad, in its total rational perspective,
DOES NOT MEAN A WAR against some enemy.

It means striving, SPECIALLY AGAINST ONE'S OWN SELF,
which is the GREATEST JIHAD.
One who STRIVES IN THE WAY OF ALLAH,
does it for his own good.
=======

MISINTERPRETED:

29. 69:
C3502. "STRIVE IN OUR CAUSE."

All that man can do is to strive in ALLAH'S CAUSE.
As soon as he strives with MIGHT AND MAIN,

with constancy and determination, the Light and Mercy of Allah come to
meet him. They cure his defects and shortcomings. They provide him
with the means by which he can raise himself above himself. They point
out the Way, and all the Paths leading up to it.
See next note.

C3503. THE WAY OF ALLAH
(SIRAT-UL-MUSTAQIM) IS A STRAIGHT WAY.

But men have strayed from it in all directions. And there are numerous
Paths by which they can get back to the Right Way, the way in which
the purity of their own nature, and the Will and Mercy of Allah
require them to Walk.

All these numerous Paths become open to them if once
they give their hearts in keeping to Allah and work in
right
ENDEAVOUR (JIHAD) WITH ALL THEIR MIND
AND SOUL AND RESOURCES.

Thus will they get out of the Spider's web of this frail world and
attain to eternal Bliss in the fulfillment of their true Destiny.
Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans


9:40. IF YE HELP HIM NOT, STILL ALLAH HELPED HIM when those who
disbelieve drove him forth, the second of two; when they two were in
the cave, when he said unto his comrade: Grieve not. LO! ALLAH IS WITH
US. Then Allah caused His peace of reassurance to descend upon him and
supported him with hosts ye cannot see, and made the word of those WHO
DISBELIEVED THE NETHERMOST,

while ALLAH'S WORD
it was that became the UPPERMOST.
Allah is Mighty, Wise.

9:41. Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed,
AND STRIVE with your wealth
AND YOUR LIVES
IN THE WAY OF ALLAH!
That is best for you if ye but knew.

9:42. Had it been a NEAR ADVENTURE
AND AN EASY JOURNEY
they had followed thee, BUT THE DISTANCE
SEEMED TOO FAR FOR THEM.

Yet will they swear by Allah (saying):
If we had been able we would surely have set out with you.

THEY DESTROY THEIR SOULS,
and Allah knoweth that they verily are liars.
Pickthal's Quran Translation

historical context of the above highly misused passages:

9. 40:
C1302. The Tabuk expedition was not a failure. Though some hesitated,
many more joined in. BUT A MORE STRIKING EXAMPLE WAS WHEN THE PROPHET
WAS
HUNTED out of makkah and performed his famous hijrat. his enemies
plotted for his life. he had already sent his followers on to madinah.
ALI HAD VOLUNTEERED TO FACE HIS ENEMIES IN HIS HOUSE.
...................
Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans

9. 41:
C1306. Whether equipped lightly or heavily: to be taken both literally
and METAPHORICALLY.

All were invited, and they were to bring such resources as they had,
light- armed or heavy-armed, on foot or mounted, experienced men for
posts of danger, raw men for duties for which they were fit. All would
and should help. Even those who were too old or feeble to go could
contribute such money or resources as they had.
Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans
===

that said, please don's accuse of something i have not done.

i have quoted the bible - the old and new testaments in order to show
the 'divine origin' AND ORDER of the term 'jihad' -- which had become
synonymous with terrorism, etc., in the west. however you have made no
reference to it all.

my point was:

if you can appreciate what your own bible teaches both directly and
indirectly, then you will understand also, how some of the muslim
fanatics have misinterpreted and MISUSED the holy qur'an for their own
political gain. THEY HAVE POLITICIZED RELIGION.

however, as seen above the holy qur'an speaks of a 'jihad - striving'
- in the personal sense -- that is jihad--striving against one's own
soul for a higher gain -- spiritual - soul elevation, etc., with its
heavenly rewards.

the holy qur'an also sanctions defensive fighting.

now, if you a WESTERNER can muster enough courage and wisdom to accept
the injustices done to the poor muslims in the mid-east and elsewhere
then -- you will understand that the deprived muslims are fighting a
defensive war mostly.

however, people like osama bin laden -- a 'usa - engendered puppet -
and mass murderer' had misused the holy qur'an for his political
purposes -- just as bush had used the pre-emptive was in iraq under
false pretext -- and divine claims.

meaning: the holy qur'an DOES NOT recommend suicide bombings or
whatever.

it says very clearly:

5:32. For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel
that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter
or corruption in the earth, IT SHALL BE AS
IF HE HAD KILLED ALL MANKIND,

and whoso saveth the life of one,
IT SHALL BE AS IF HE HAD SAVED THE LIFE OF ALL MANKIND.
Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs
(of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became
prodigals in the earth.
Pickthal's Quran Translation

5. 32:
C737. The story of Cain is referred to in a few graphic details in
order to tell the story of Israel. Israel rebelled against Allah, slew
and insulted righteous men who did them no harm but on the contrary
came in all humility. When Allah withdrew His favour from Israel
because of its sins and bestowed it on brother nation, the jealousy of
Israel plunged it deeper into sin. To kill or seek to kill an
individual because he represents an ideal is to kill all who uphold
the ideal. On the other hand, to save an individual life in the same
circumstances is to save a whole community. What could be stronger
condemnation of individual assassination and revenge?
Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans
=

please look at the qur'anic version of these events in a more broader
historical--biblical context as well.

you will this original story in the bible, as follows:

Genesis 4:3 (KJV) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain
brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. {in
process...: Heb. at the end of days}

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the
fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
{flock: Heb. sheep, or, goats}

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was
very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy
countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest
not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire,
and thou shalt rule over him. {be accepted: or, have the excellency}
{unto...: or, subject unto thee}

8 AND CAIN TALKED WITH ABEL HIS BROTHER:
AND IT CAME TO PASS, WHEN THEY WERE IN THE FIELD,
THAT CAIN ROSE UP AGAINST ABEL HIS BROTHER, AND SLEW HIM.

9 AND THE LORD SAID UNTO CAIN, WHERE [IS] ABEL THY
BROTHER? AND HE SAID, I KNOW NOT:
[AM] I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER?

10 AND HE SAID, WHAT HAST THOU DONE? THE VOICE
OF THY BROTHER'S BLOOD CRIETH UNTO ME FROM
THE GROUND. {BLOOD: HEB. BLOODS}

11 And now [art] thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her
mouth to
receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

"Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:ada3dcb.0406072041.5b7081d2@posting.google.co m...
> 1, 'STRIVE IN US -- JAAHADUU FIINAA '
>
> 2. 'we surely GUIDE THEM TO OUR PATHS'
>
>
> 29:69. As for those who STRIVE IN US,
> WE SURELY GUIDE THEM TO OUR PATHS,
> and lo! Allah is with the good.
> Pickthal's Quran Translation
> =
>
> note the above striving is directly connected with allah's 'guidance
> to our paths.'
>
> meaning: a muslim is commanded to strive in this life ONLY and LIVE.
>
> if so, no suicide bomber who takes the innocent lives with his own can
> ever hope for this DIVINE guidance. hence, his painful end is
> inevitable.
> =
>
> 'AND WHOSOEVER STRIVETH,
> STRIVETH ONLY FOR > 29: 4. Or do those who do
ILL-DEEDS IMAGINE that they can out> heavenly rewards.

snipped a lot of irrelevant stuff.



>
> the holy qur'an also sanctions defensive fighting.
>
> now, if you a WESTERNER can muster enough courage and wisdom to accept
> the injustices done to the poor muslims in the mid-east and elsewhere
> then -- you will understand that the deprived muslims are fighting a
> defensive war mostly.
>
> however, people like osama bin laden -- a 'usa - engendered puppet -
> and mass murderer' had misused the holy qur'an for his political
> purposes -- just as bush had used the pre-emptive was in iraq under
> false pretext -- and divine claims.
>
> meaning: the holy qur'an DOES NOT recommend suicide bombings or
> whatever.
>
> it says very clearly:
>
> 5:32. For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel
> that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter
> or corruption in the earth, IT SHALL BE AS
> IF HE HAD KILLED ALL MANKIND,
>
> and whoso saveth the life of one,
> IT SHALL BE AS IF HE HAD SAVED THE LIFE OF ALL MANKIND.
> Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs
> (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became
> prodigals in the earth.
> Pickthal's Quran Translation
>

YES!!! YES!!! You have admitted that suicide bombing and killing the
innocent is out of the will of Allah. So then you are saying that Muslim
Imams have deceived the youth of Palestine. Many young Arab Muslim boys in
Palestine have been given picture cards of the young (often teenage) suicide
bombers. They are taught that these suicide bombers are heros to be honored.
They are encouraged to trade picture cards with each other in order to fill
up their books. The youth are taught that a suicide bomber book that is
filled with cards is a prized possession. Has the Imams also lied to the
young boy/girl who have given his/her life? Is there no 72 virgins awaiting
the young boy (I guess the suicide girl is out of luck)? Is the young man
not going to be able to have sex for all eternity for killing an Israeli
baby in it's mother's arms?

Why don't you Muslims speak up and tell the youth of Palestine the truth?
Why are you Muslims not screaming it from the roof tops, that Allah is not
going to reward the murdering of innocent people? The suicide bombing has
not worked. It has only ruined the economy of Palestine and made the life of
the Arab Palestinian much harder. Not to mention that a young Muslim boy has
died in vain doing what Allah has forbidden. Is it because the life of a
young Arab is cheap, like a piece of discarded toilet paper, that you
Muslims remain silent? Terrorism is causing Islam to become a stench in the
nostrils of the non-Muslim world. Is this Allah's plan to win over the
world, causing Islam and Muslims to be despised by all who love freedom and
hold life dear?

Oh, one more thing, Thank you for answering my question.


--
We must never forget that on Sept.12, 2001, Israel's flags were flying at
half-staff and the Palestinians were dancing in the streets.

HIGHLY SELECTIVE READING:

please don't read only that which appeals and applies to your
whimsical and unfounded bias and bigotry all around!

1. you have rejected the historical-biblical cum divine origin
of the command 'jihad' - and the lord god's own
participation therein.

2. you also have rejected the historical-biblical cum divine
origin
of the command 'jihad' - and moses own participation
therein.

3. you also have rejected the historical-biblical cum divine
origin
of the command 'jihad' - and the children of israel's own
participation therein.

4. you have further rejected the historical-biblical cum
divine origin
of the command 'jihad' - and jesus own position and
explicit
reason for his advent.

5. you have further rejected bush's and the usa's OWN ROLE,
OUTRIGHT WICKEDNESS and LIES IN ADVANCING A PRE-EMPTIVE WAR AGAINST
IRAQ AND THEREBY KILLING of the 10,000's OF INNOCENT PEOPLE IN ITS
PATH ;

not to speak of the enormous travesties caused by years of the usa
sanctions against the innocent, whilst the USA and the UN officals
were enjoying the ill-gotten fruits of the IRAQI BLACK GOLD on the
BLACK MARKET.

6. you also have rejected SHARON'S AND ISRAEL'S OWN ROLE,
OUTRIGHT WICKEDNESS, LIES and MASSACRE OF THE INNOCENTS for decades
now.

the united states of america had SANCTIONED all that against the poor,
helpless and defenceless palestinians.

JUSTIFICATION AND HEAVENLY REWARDS!!!!

sir, all of the above had given rise to the 'young blood' in palestine
and iraq which know not how else to defend whatever little that is
left for them in their own homelands.

israel fights and kills the innocents with the usa knowledge and
backing, money and advanced weaponry!!

the holy qur'an also sanctions defensive fighting.

now, if you a WESTERNER can muster enough courage and wisdom to accept
the injustices done to the poor muslims in the mid-east and elsewhere
then -- you will understand that the deprived muslims are fighting a
defensive war mostly.

however, people like osama bin laden -- a 'usa - engendered puppet -
and mass murderer had misused the holy qur'an for his political
purposes -- just as bush had used the pre-emptive was in iraq under
false pretext -- and divine claims.

meaning: the holy qur'an DOES NOT recommend suicide bombings or
whatever.

=======

"James" <jmedors@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<Phtxc.256$33.45@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
> "Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:ada3dcb.0406072041.5b7081d2@posting.google.co m...

>
> YES!!! YES!!! You have admitted that suicide bombing and killing the
> innocent is out of the will of Allah. So then you are saying that Muslim
> Imams have deceived the youth of Palestine.

>
> Why don't you Muslims speak up and tell the youth of Palestine the truth?
> Why are you Muslims not screaming it from the roof tops, that Allah is not
> going to reward the murdering of innocent people? >
> Oh, one more thing, Thank you for answering my question.

"Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:ada3dcb.0406091526.50510bb0@posting.google.co m...
> HIGHLY SELECTIVE READING:
>
>
> the united states of america had SANCTIONED all that against the poor,
> helpless and defenceless palestinians.
>
> JUSTIFICATION AND HEAVENLY REWARDS!!!!
>
> sir, all of the above had given rise to the 'young blood' in palestine
> and iraq which know not how else to defend whatever little that is
> left for them in their own homelands.
>
> israel fights and kills the innocents with the usa knowledge and
> backing, money and advanced weaponry!!
>
> the holy qur'an also sanctions defensive fighting.
>
> now, if you a WESTERNER can muster enough courage and wisdom to accept
> the injustices done to the poor muslims in the mid-east and elsewhere
> then -- you will understand that the deprived muslims are fighting a
> defensive war mostly.
>
> however, people like osama bin laden -- a 'usa - engendered puppet -
> and mass murderer had misused the holy qur'an for his political
> purposes -- just as bush had used the pre-emptive was in iraq under
> false pretext -- and divine claims.
>
> meaning: the holy qur'an DOES NOT recommend suicide bombings or
> whatever.
>

So you are trying to justify the suicide bombers in Palestine and Iraq by
saying they are actually acting in self-defense? Because their condition has
become so bad this is all that is left for them. Is that what you are
saying? Why did Allah allow their condition to become so deplorable? Are
these not Muslims that pray to Allah five times a day?

Where is Allah? In 1948 the Israelis were out numbered and this time the
Arabs had the superior arms. The Arabs attacked and they were determined to
drive the Israelis from the land. As you know the Arabs where badly beaten.
Where was Allah? The Jews were not praying to Allah and yet Allah let the
Jews win.

Where is Allah? In 1967 the Arabs had gathered their forces together on the
borders of Israel and were threatening to once again destroy Israel. Israeli
struck first. The Arabs who believed that god was on their side against the
evil Jews, lost again. Where was Allah?

Where is Allah? In 1973 Egypt and Syria made a coordinated surprise attack
against Israel. Nine more Arab states joined in. Iraq sent a division of
18,000 men, several hundred tanks and MIG's to the Golan Heights to help the
Arabs. Algeria even sent three aircraft squadrons and 150 tanks. Libya sent
Mirage fighters. It looked like Israeli was doomed. The Arabs did not want
another 1967. As you know Israeli delivered a humiliating defeat to the
Arabs until Israel was ordered to stop by the UN. Where was Allah? Once
against the Arabs were the ones praying to Allah not the Jews.

Where is Allah? Afghanistan was being defended by the Taliban. Muslims were
praying to Allah five times a day and fighting to defend their land from the
evil non-believers. They could not stand against America. Where was Allah?
George Bush is free to go wherever he wants. Osama has to hide like a
coward. Is that the best Allah could do?

STOP!!!!!! NEWS!!! BREAK!!!!!! It is unbelievable that this would come on
television just as I was typing this. One of Osama Bin Laden's sons just
said on television that they tried to recruit him once as a suicide bomber.
He said he told them that he would kill on the battlefield but that he did
not believe in killing innocent people. Looks like Osama's son is more of a
man than Osama is.

Where is Allah? Iraq was taken so easily, many Muslims said they felt
humiliated. Allah let them down again. Where was Allah.

Some Muslims have tried to tell me that the god of the Muslim's and the God
of the Jews is the same god but with different names. If that is true (I don
't believe it is) then why does Allah bless the Jews who do not believe in
him and push down the Muslims who pray to him 5 times a day? If I were a
Muslim I would be very frustrated. Muslims are heading down the wrong road
with suicide bombing and the world is not going to buy, that it is
self-defense. It is not self-defense. It is murder. You have admitted
yourself that your Allah does not approve of murder in the Quran.


--
We must never forget that on Sept.12, 2001, Israel's flags were flying at
half-staff and the Palestinians were dancing in the streets.

"James" <jmedors@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<1l8yc.17576$ej6.4630@bignews3.bellsouth.net> ...


> STOP!!!!!! NEWS!!! BREAK!!!!!! It is unbelievable that this would come on
> television just as I was typing this.


But only minority want quick exit now that troops thereThe Associated
Press
Updated: 9:03 a.m. ET June 11, 2004LOS ANGELES - A majority of
American registered voters polled from across the nation now say
conditions in Iraq did not merit war, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
according to a new Los Angeles Times poll.

Fifty-three percent of respondents said the situation in Iraq did not
merit war, while 43 percent said war was justified.

Voters' mounting worries about the war have damaged their confidence
in President Bush, the poll showed.


Poll: Most Americans feel war not justified


But only minority want quick exit now that troops thereThe Associated
Press
Updated: 9:03 a.m. ET June 11, 2004LOS ANGELES - A majority of
American registered voters polled from across the nation now say
conditions in Iraq did not merit war, but most are reluctant to
abandon efforts there, according to a new Los Angeles Times poll.


Voters are increasingly concerned that Iraq is a quagmire America
cannot escape, and they are doubtful that a democratic government will
be established there, according to the poll published in Friday
editions of the Times.

Fifty-three percent of respondents said the situation in Iraq did not
merit war, while 43 percent said war was justified. When the same
question was asked for Times polls in March and November, the numbers
were precisely reversed.

But less than 20 percent said America should withdraw its troops
within weeks, and 25 percent said the U.S. should set a deadline for
pulling out.

"I never thought we should go to war in Iraq," said Anne Wardwell, a
retired museum curator in Cleveland. "But I think we have to see it
through, because if we don't, it is going to be a disaster in the
region."

Voters' mounting worries about the war have damaged their confidence
in President Bush, the poll showed. Forty-four percent said they
approved of Bush's handling of the war, compared to 51 percent in
March.

The poll, which was conducted from Saturday to Tuesday, surveyed 1,230
registered voters nationwide. It had a margin of error of plus or
minus three percentage points.

Forty-one percent approved of Bush's handling of the Abu Ghraib
prisoner abuse scandal, while 37 percent disapproved of his
performance.

A majority of voters said presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry has
done little to help: The poll found that 34 percent said Kerry has not
offered a clear plan to handle the war, while 15 percent said he has.
The other voters said they didn't know.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
MORE FROM IRAQ CONFLICT
Iraq Conflict Section

"James" <jmedors@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<1l8yc.17576$ej6.4630@bignews3.bellsouth.net> ...
> "Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:ada3dcb.0406091526.50510bb0@posting.google.co m...
> > HIGHLY SELECTIVE READING:
>
> So you are trying to justify the suicide bombers in Palestine and Iraq by
> saying they are actually acting in self-defense? Because their condition has
> become so bad this is all that is left for them. Is that what you are
> saying? Why did Allah allow their condition to become so deplorable? Are
> these not Muslims that pray to Allah five times a day?
>
> Where is Allah?

> Where was Allah?

The Jews were not praying to Allah and yet Allah let the
> Jews win.
>
> Where is Allah?

Where was Allah?
>
> Where is Allah?

Where was Allah?
>
> Where is Allah?

Where was Allah?
>
>
> STOP!!!!!! NEWS!!! BREAK!!!!!! It is unbelievable that this would come on
> television just as I was typing this.
>
> Where is Allah?

Where was Allah.
>


You have admitted
> yourself that your Allah does not approve of murder in the Quran.
=

2:186. And when My servants question thee
concerning Me, then surely I am nigh.

I answer the prayer of the suppliant
when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear
My call and let them trust in Me,
in order that they
may be led aright.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

2:190. Fight in the way of Allah against
those who fight against you,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

but begin not hostilities.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
==

2:214. Or think ye that ye will enter paradise
while yet there hath not come unto you the like
of (that which came to) those who passed away
before you?

Affliction and adversity befell them,
they were shaken as with earthquake, till the
messenger (of Allah) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and those who believed along
with him said: When cometh Allah's help?

Now surely Allah's help is nigh.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
=

2:177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces
to the East and the West; but righteous is he who
believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels
and the Scripture and the prophets;

and giveth wealth,

for love of Him, to kinsfolk
[to fil - qurbaa -- the holy ahl al-bait pbuth]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and to orphans and the needy
and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free;
and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due.
And those who keep their treaty when they make one,
and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Such are they who are sincere.
Such are the Allah-fearing.
=


29: 1. Alif. Lam. Mim.
29: 2. Do men imagine that they will be left
(at ease) because they say, We believe,
and will not be tested with affliction?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

29: 3. Lo! We tested those who were before you.
Thus Allah knoweth those who are sincere,
and knoweth those who feign.
Pickthal's Quran Translation
===



"James" <jmedors@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<1l8yc.17576$ej6.4630@bignews3.bellsouth.net> ...


> STOP!!!!!! NEWS!!! BREAK!!!!!! It is unbelievable that this would come on
> television just as I was typing this.


But only minority want quick exit now that troops thereThe Associated
Press
Updated: 9:03 a.m. ET June 11, 2004LOS ANGELES - A majority of
American registered voters polled from across the nation now say
conditions in Iraq did not merit war, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
according to a new Los Angeles Times poll.

Fifty-three percent of respondents said the situation in Iraq did not
merit war, while 43 percent said war was justified.

Voters' mounting worries about the war have damaged their confidence
in President Bush, the poll showed.


Poll: Most Americans feel war not justified


But only minority want quick exit now that troops thereThe Associated
Press
Updated: 9:03 a.m. ET June 11, 2004LOS ANGELES - A majority of
American registered voters polled from across the nation now say
conditions in Iraq did not merit war, but most are reluctant to
abandon efforts there, according to a new Los Angeles Times poll.


Voters are increasingly concerned that Iraq is a quagmire America
cannot escape, and they are doubtful that a democratic government will
be established there, according to the poll published in Friday
editions of the Times.

Fifty-three percent of respondents said the situation in Iraq did not
merit war, while 43 percent said war was justified. When the same
question was asked for Times polls in March and November, the numbers
were precisely reversed.

But less than 20 percent said America should withdraw its troops
within weeks, and 25 percent said the U.S. should set a deadline for
pulling out.

"I never thought we should go to war in Iraq," said Anne Wardwell, a
retired museum curator in Cleveland. "But I think we have to see it
through, because if we don't, it is going to be a disaster in the
region."

Voters' mounting worries about the war have damaged their confidence
in President Bush, the poll showed. Forty-four percent said they
approved of Bush's handling of the war, compared to 51 percent in
March.

The poll, which was conducted from Saturday to Tuesday, surveyed 1,230
registered voters nationwide. It had a margin of error of plus or
minus three percentage points.

Forty-one percent approved of Bush's handling of the Abu Ghraib
prisoner abuse scandal, while 37 percent disapproved of his
performance.

A majority of voters said presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry has
done little to help: The poll found that 34 percent said Kerry has not
offered a clear plan to handle the war, while 15 percent said he has.
The other voters said they didn't know.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
MORE FROM IRAQ CONFLICT
Iraq Conflict Section

"James" <jmedors@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<1l8yc.17576$ej6.4630@bignews3.bellsouth.net> ...
> "Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:ada3dcb.0406091526.50510bb0@posting.google.co m...
> > HIGHLY SELECTIVE READING:
>
> So you are trying to justify the suicide bombers in Palestine and Iraq by
> saying they are actually acting in self-defense? Because their condition has
> become so bad this is all that is left for them. Is that what you are
> saying? Why did Allah allow their condition to become so deplorable? Are
> these not Muslims that pray to Allah five times a day?
>
> Where is Allah?

> Where was Allah?

The Jews were not praying to Allah and yet Allah let the
> Jews win.
>
> Where is Allah?

Where was Allah?
>
> Where is Allah?

Where was Allah?
>
> Where is Allah?

Where was Allah?
>
>
> STOP!!!!!! NEWS!!! BREAK!!!!!! It is unbelievable that this would come on
> television just as I was typing this.
>
> Where is Allah?

Where was Allah.
>


You have admitted
> yourself that your Allah does not approve of murder in the Quran.
=

look before you leap!!!!

strange! strange! strange!

stranger than fiction

Genesis 3:22 (KJV) And the LORD God said,
BEHOLD, THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US,
to know good and evil: and now,
lest he put forth his hand,
AND TAKE ALSO OF THE TREE OF LIFE,
AND EAT, AND LIVE FOR EVER:

Genesis 3:24 (KJV) SO HE DROVE OUT THE MAN;
and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims,
and a flaming sword which turned every way,
TO KEEP THE WAY OF THE TREE OF LIFE.

Judges 1:19 (KJV) And the LORD was with Judah;
and he drave out [the inhabitants of] the mountain;
BUT COULD NOT DRIVE OUT THE INHABITANTS
OF THE VALLEY,
because they had chariots of iron

jesus the jew and the son of god, the father was killed by the very jews who
prayed to his god, the father. and the god, the father in turn had forsaken jesus!

'My God, my God, why
hast thou forsaken me?'

Matthew 27:46 (KJV) And about the ninth hour Jesus
cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say,
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34 (KJV) And at the ninth hour Jesus
cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi,
lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted,
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
=======



> "James" <jmedors@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<1l8yc.17576$ej6.4630@bignews3.bellsouth.net> ...
>
>
> > STOP!!!!!! NEWS!!! BREAK!!!!!! It is unbelievable that this would come on
> > television just as I was typing this.
>
>
>
> "James" <jmedors@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<1l8yc.17576$ej6.4630@bignews3.bellsouth.net> ...
> > "Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:ada3dcb.0406091526.50510bb0@posting.google.co m...
> > > HIGHLY SELECTIVE READING:
> >
> > So you are trying to justify the suicide bombers in Palestine and Iraq by
> > saying they are actually acting in self-defense? Because their condition has
> > become so bad this is all that is left for them. Is that what you are
> > saying? Why did Allah allow their condition to become so deplorable? Are
> > these not Muslims that pray to Allah five times a day?
> >
> > Where is Allah?
>
> > Where was Allah?
>
> The Jews were not praying to Allah and yet Allah let the
> > Jews win.
> >
> > Where is Allah?
>
> Where was Allah?
> >
> > Where is Allah?
>
> Where was Allah?
> >
> > Where is Allah?
>
> Where was Allah?
> >
> >
> > STOP!!!!!! NEWS!!! BREAK!!!!!! It is unbelievable that this would come on
> > television just as I was typing this.
> >
> > Where is Allah?
>
> Where was Allah.
> >
>
>
> You have admitted
> > yourself that your Allah does not approve of murder in the Quran.
> =

"Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:ada3dcb.0406120315.2220cd0a@posting.google.co m...
> look before you leap!!!!
>
> strange! strange! strange!
>
> stranger than fiction
>
> Genesis 3:22 (KJV) And the LORD God said,
> BEHOLD, THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US,
> to know good and evil: and now,
> lest he put forth his hand,
> AND TAKE ALSO OF THE TREE OF LIFE,
> AND EAT, AND LIVE FOR EVER:
>
> Genesis 3:24 (KJV) SO HE DROVE OUT THE MAN;
> and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims,
> and a flaming sword which turned every way,
> TO KEEP THE WAY OF THE TREE OF LIFE.
>
> Judges 1:19 (KJV) And the LORD was with Judah;
> and he drave out [the inhabitants of] the mountain;
> BUT COULD NOT DRIVE OUT THE INHABITANTS
> OF THE VALLEY,
> because they had chariots of iron
>
> jesus the jew and the son of god, the father was killed by the very jews
who
> prayed to his god, the father. and the god, the father in turn had
forsaken jesus!
>
> 'My God, my God, why
> hast thou forsaken me?'
>
> Matthew 27:46 (KJV) And about the ninth hour Jesus
> cried with a loud voice, saying,
> Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say,
> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
>
> Mark 15:34 (KJV) And at the ninth hour Jesus
> cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi,
> lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted,
> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
> =======
>

WHOA! STOP! HOLE THE FORT!

ARE YOU NOT A MUSLIM?

I thought you were a Muslim teaching the Quran. Are you a Muslim that does
not know what Islam teaches about Jesus? Let me tell you what your religion
teaches about Jesus.

Mohammed said he was a prophet. Islam teaches that Jesus NEVER DIED on the
cross but that one of his disciples took his place. Many of your clerics say
that it was probably Judas. They say Judas took his place out of remorse for
betraying Jesus. Islam says that Jesus was taken up to heaven by god alive.
Your religion teaches that because everyone has to die that Allah is sending
Jesus back to earth. Your religion teaches that Jesus will return and live
here on this earth for forty years completing seventy years of life on this
earth. Jesus will then die as any normal man. However, (this is where the
bull sh** gets deep) during Jesus's 40 years here on earth he will get
married and have children. Your religion claims that during these 40 years
that Jesus will teach the Jews, the Christians and the rest of the world,
that they have been wrong about Islam. Jesus will show the world that Islam
is the one and only true religion.

You being a Muslim did not know this? If you did know it, then why did you
send me these quotes out of the Christian Bible about Jesus's crucifixion?

Let me ask you this? If you Muslims ever achieve your goal of destroying
the Jewish race, then how is Jesus ever going to convert them to Islam?

Keep studying your Quran. Maybe Allah will open your eyes and show you that
the Muslim's struggle against Israel is like unto a man beating his head
against a brick wall.


--
We must never forget that on Sept.12, 2001, Israel's flags were flying at
half-staff and the Palestinians were dancing in the streets.

"Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:ada3dcb.0406120315.2220cd0a@posting.google.co m...
> look before you leap!!!!
>
> strange! strange! strange!
>
> stranger than fiction
>
I have got one more question. What is the HELL is a Muslim doing quoting out
of a Christian Bible when you Muslims believe the Christian's Bible is
false? I quote the Quran because you believe it is the actually words of
Allah (I could have some fun with that one). If we are going to debate we
have to have a standard that we both agree on. You pick. We will use the
Quran, the Torah, or the Christian Bible. Your choice but just one.


--
We must never forget that on Sept.12, 2001, Israel's flags were flying at
half-staff and the Palestinians were dancing in the streets.

look before you leap!!!!

o smart one, is it ok for a non-muslim like yourself to attack islam
on the basis of the MISINTERPRETATION of the holy qur'an?

but at the same, is it wrong for a muslim to quote the bible to
that non-muslim BIGOT under similar circumstances, to prove a point?

how do you judge? you can't have it both ways.

======= I REST MY CASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


strange! strange! strange!

stranger than fiction

Genesis 3:22 (KJV) And the LORD God said,
BEHOLD, THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US,
to know good and evil: and now,
lest he put forth his hand,
AND TAKE ALSO OF THE TREE OF LIFE,
AND EAT, AND LIVE FOR EVER:

Genesis 3:24 (KJV) SO HE DROVE OUT THE MAN;
and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims,
and a flaming sword which turned every way,
TO KEEP THE WAY OF THE TREE OF LIFE.

Judges 1:19 (KJV) And the LORD was with Judah;
and he drave out [the inhabitants of] the mountain;
BUT COULD NOT DRIVE OUT THE INHABITANTS
OF THE VALLEY,
because they had chariots of iron

jesus the jew and the son of god, the father was killed by the very jews who
prayed to his god, the father. and the god, the father in turn had forsaken jesus!

'My God, my God, why
hast thou forsaken me?'

Matthew 27:46 (KJV) And about the ninth hour Jesus
cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say,
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34 (KJV) And at the ninth hour Jesus
cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi,
lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted,
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
=======



"James" <jmedors@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<6RLyc.30482$Kd5.1180@bignews4.bellsouth.net> ...
> "Kenadian" <kenadian@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:ada3dcb.0406121340.39399c38@posting.google.co m...
> > look before you leap!!!!
> >
> > strange! strange! strange!
> >
> > stranger than fiction
> >

> >
> > ======= I REST MY CASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
>
> YOU REST YOUR CASE? You are kidding right? You Muslims do not even
> believe that Jesus died on the cross, so how could God have forsaken him if
> it was one of his disciples on the cross? You Muslims do not believe the
> Christian's New Testament is true, so how can you use what you do not
> believe to be true to support your case? You had better hope the Christian'
> s New Testament is not true. Because if it is true, that is positive proof
> that your Allah is not real and Islam is a false religion. I really don't
> even understand fully what your case is. I pointed out in a previous post
> that Allah has appeared to have abandoned the Muslims. How would showing
> that the Christian's God may have abandoned them change my statements about
> Allah in any way? I am having trouble following your line of reasoning. I
> did get you to admit that the Quran does not support suicide bombings and
> killing innocent civilians and that was my goal. I am beginning to feel
> that you think if you give any reply at all, even if your reply makes no
> sense, you have answered my question.