clearand10@aol.comtakeout (H. David Pembrook) writes:

>
> Very reputable polling organizations have sampled the population and repeatedly
> come up with roughly 80% of the Iraqi people supporting the allied presence and
> removal of Saddam.

Is that what they tell you?

Remember: They lied before they invaded. And they will lie whenever it
suits them.

> to being attacked by members of small, fanatical fringe groups, many of whom
> are not even Iraqi.

Bush propaganda.

The majority of the Iraqi people want the aggressors removed.
These are the facts.

Thomas F. Unke <news1455@gmx.com> wrote:
> mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz) writes:
>> The government of Afghanistan has started planning for tourism, so why not
>> Iraq?
>
> At the moment, any Western looking person is an enemy of Iraq. Not the
> best time to be there.

I don't think that's true. I have some friends and colleagues working there
- without military affiliation - and they largely report receiving
overwhelming hospitality. One sends me a weekly update with photos and
stories, and they're quite heartwarming. I've spent enough time in the
region to believe them.

Obviously the security situation is abysmal and there are some people who
would love to get a western notch in their belt. But they're a small
minority. Many more people are generally annoyed with the occupation but
wouldn't lift a finger to hurt anyone. Most aren't quite sure what's best.

miguel
--
See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/

In article <20031104121103.20259.00000134@mb-m21.aol.com>, clearand10
@aol.comtakeout says...
> Very reputable polling organizations have sampled the population and repeatedly
> come up with roughly 80% of the Iraqi people supporting the allied presence and
> removal of Saddam.

They are all happily dancing in the streets every time an American gets
shot.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Olympus4040_5050/
Olympus 5050 resource - http://www.molon.de/5050.html
Olympus 5060 resource - http://www.molon.de/5060.html

mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz) writes:

> I don't think that's true. I have some friends and colleagues
> working there - without military affiliation - and they largely
> report receiving overwhelming hospitality.

This is no contradiction to what I wrote before. Of course, as you
know well, this is the typical hospitality you find almost everywhere
in the Arab or Muslim world.

But for those who fight, as a Westerner you are a potential
target. They don't know if you are a friendly tourist or a CIA
agent. This is war - nothing to joke about.

> Many more people are generally annoyed with the occupation but
> wouldn't lift a finger to hurt anyone.

I guess so. Just imagine how much these people suffered for decades -
under the Saddam family and later under the Bush family. Three
terrible wars with millions of victims, the hunger embargo which
costed another million's lifes - these people just want to have
normality, are fed up with war. But it's still a long way to peace.

Alfred Molon <alfred_molon@yahooDELETE.com> writes:

> In article <20031104121103.20259.00000134@mb-m21.aol.com>, clearand10
> @aol.comtakeout says...
>> Very reputable polling organizations have sampled the population and repeatedly
>> come up with roughly 80% of the Iraqi people supporting the allied presence and
>> removal of Saddam.
>
> They are all happily dancing in the streets every time an American gets
> shot.

This is understandable if you consider that often the occupation
soldiers are shooting into civilians, killing women and children. The
major reason why the US soldiers are targeted and not so much the
British, is their ruthless behaviour. Not only when they kill, but
also when they terrorize the people.

But back to statistics:

A few months ago, 99% of the Iraqis "voted" for Saddam. If some people
"vote" for the US occupants, then it may have a similar reason: plain
fear.

But even then, the majority is against the occupation:

>>> BAGHDAD (AFP) - More and more Iraqis view the US forces as
>>> "occupiers" not liberators and say they want an Islamic-style
>>> democracy, citing Iran as a model, said a new poll.
>>> The results found 67 percent of Iraqis view the US-led coalition
>>> as an occupying force, while only 46 percent of the population
>>> considered them as such when US troops rolled into Baghdad April
>>> 9, said the Iraqi Centre for Research and Strategic Studies.

Latest poll from October 23.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...1023165708&e=5

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:11:23 GMT, Thomas F. Unke <thf00@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>clearand10@aol.comtakeout (H. David Pembrook) writes:
>
>>
>> Very reputable polling organizations have sampled the population and repeatedly
>> come up with roughly 80% of the Iraqi people supporting the allied presence and
>> removal of Saddam.
>
>Is that what they tell you?
>
>Remember: They lied before they invaded. And they will lie whenever it
>suits them.

The polling organisations lied? What reason do you have for believing
that?

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:49:39 GMT, Thomas F. Unke <thf00@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz) writes:
>
>> I don't think that's true. I have some friends and colleagues
>> working there - without military affiliation - and they largely
>> report receiving overwhelming hospitality.
>
>This is no contradiction to what I wrote before. Of course, as you
>know well, this is the typical hospitality you find almost everywhere
>in the Arab or Muslim world.
>
>But for those who fight, as a Westerner you are a potential
>target. They don't know if you are a friendly tourist or a CIA
>agent. This is war - nothing to joke about.

But they can distinguish between US military personnel and UN aid
workers, yet they seem to target both in the same way. In view of that
I don't think I'd feel very confident to go there as a tourist right
now.

Chris Blunt <chris_blunt@despammed.com> writes:

> But they can distinguish between US military personnel and UN aid
> workers, yet they seem to target both in the same way.

The UN have a very negative image in Iraq. Because of the embargo
which killed around one million people. Even if the embargo was mainly
imposed by the US government, it was still the UN security council
which finally sanctioned it.

Chris Blunt <chris_blunt@despammed.com> writes:

>>Remember: They lied before they invaded. And they will lie whenever it
>>suits them.
>
> The polling organisations lied? What reason do you have for believing
> that?

He just claimed so without proof. Looks like he is just repeating Bush
propaganda.

In my former posting, I gave the link of the most recent poll that the
majority of Iraqis do view the US as occupation force. All serious
journalists share this view.

Whenever a US soldier is killed, the locals are happy, celebrating on
the streets. Quite different to the former claim that "80% are happy"
with the new regime.

Thomas F. Unke <news1455@gmx.com> wrote:
> Whenever a US soldier is killed, the locals are happy, celebrating on
> the streets. Quite different to the former claim that "80% are happy"
> with the new regime.

More than 20% of the population drops what they're doing to hit the streets
and party every time a soldier gets hit by a bus?

miguel
--
See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/